Curse

You can't see me · Feb 15, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I have waffled my previous decision to not post in this thread because of the fact that +1's are for the win.

Yawg, there's a lot of things in your quoted post that aren't need to filter out what you're actually saying, so I deleted them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Unlucky much?
I get better and more valuable drops in Factions than in Nightfall consistently!

So would you please explain to me why your luck over rides anyone else's testimony?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

God, how people can't get it how the combination of Hard Mode insane golds drop rate and inscriptions is an absolute catastrophy it's beyond all common sense.

The use of "Common Sense" in that part is disgustingly hypocritical of what it says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

This change is a very bad idea for the game as a whole, catering only to those who cry after getting several bad drops in a row. I don't cry, I enjoy playing the old campagins knowing that I will get a great drop that will be more than worthwhile (and I do find them). But I do not enjoy the Nightfall system where all the drops are equal, equally worthless, equally boring and lame.

So what if you don't enjoy it? It doesn't mean that other people do not as well. Counter to your prejudice to anyone who disagrees with you, not all people in favor of the inscription system are not all fifty points less than your IQ, which probably doesn't have 50 points to subtract without going negative in the first place.

The fact of the old system was and always will be that it was far too luck based. If your luck was as good as you claim, then I suggest Vegas. See how you fare there. Maybe it will put things in prespective.

The problem with your argument is that you lack the capacity to practice empathy for anyone who is not on your side. You just wildly assume that they want the new system because it is easier. In turn, your argument goes out the window no matter how logical it may be. (And trust me, it isn't logical.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Please Anet, don't nerf my old favorite games, I say that again.

Anet, please nerf these games. They are only a symbol of what was, and not what is, and why it is. All the old system was and ever will be is E-Peen. Those who make a profit from it will naturally want to keep it. And it boils down in all you say that this is why you want it, no matter how you claim otherwise.

Judging by all of your replies, if your luck was less, you would be on the other side, which means that you're just arguing to keep it because it helped you along, which is very selfish and a bad stand in an argument because a much larger percentage did not recieve the blessings you got.

Your stand isn't one that could ever make or break Anet's decision to change the system, and for good reason.

~Hawk of Storms.

True, but is it not our duty as the top to make sure that we are taking care of everyone, and not only ourselves. Most people who know about economics just sit back and use it to their advantage in this type of setting.

But I agree, the game needs far more Gold Sinks. If these existed, than this solution would be far more viable to the whole community I think.

Kanyatta · Feb 15, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

So would you please explain to me why your luck over rides anyone else's testimony?

Maybe I should say "Why does the first person's unluckiness override Yawg's testimony."

Can I get a 'touche!!!'?

Edit: O, btw, +1

Kanyatta · Feb 15, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And PvPers will NEVER be poor:
1. Because Zaishen chest may have any item

That may be true, but the Z Chest has the worst drop rate of any chest in the game. Out of about 10 keys, I got one gold weapon, and it was a q13 soul reaping wand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

2. Because HoH chest it's the only one where the Ghostly Hero minipet drops.

Yes, but it has a drop rate of about 0.000001%. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bet on those odds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

3. Because once they fill the hall, the only things they may have to pay are runes and upgrades, for tournament rewards. If they get PvE stuff, then they are PvErs.

You still have to pay for guests. Even if that's one guest a day, it adds up. By the way, there are some things players would rather shell out 10k for than 20,000 Reward points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

4. Because even if prices dropped, not only the sell prices would drop, the buy prices would drop, so the cash obtained by selling would be more than enough to get other items.

Aren't sell prices and buy prices usually like... the same thing? If Player A sells Weapon X for 10k to Player B, Player B isn't going to pay a sales tax or anything, he's going to pay 10k. Sell Price = Buy Price.

So, with this system, everything would be incredibly cheap, and by the way, I've never seen an inscribable weapon go for over 65k, and the highest I've ever seen was 65k for a Pyroclastic Axe or something like that, like, 6 months ago.

Hyper Cutter · Feb 15, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManiSan

I just dont understand why this thread is a Concept of the Now. Give all skins available to every single casual player? Yeeaaaah ! Turn our stuff into merch trash.

They're not giving anything to anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

So, basically, all this thread would do is make all PvPers poor because, if they did manage to get a rare drop, it would be worthless, because it will be so easy to get one, that the rarest of weapons would be 1k a piece.

PVPers would be unaffected, since everything that drops in PVP chests is already inscribable and some of it is exclusive to those chests...

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

That may be true, but the Z Chest has the worst drop rate of any chest in the game. Out of about 10 keys, I got one gold weapon, and it was a q13 soul reaping wand.

I was actually talking about the keys. You get more cash in average if you directly sell the keys.

Quote:

Yes, but it has a drop rate of about 0.000001%. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bet on those odds.

Low drops rates is what keep rare items rare. Less than 0.001% is a bit too much, but it's better than giving then the drop rate of a bag of coins.

Quote:

You still have to pay for guests.

A good PvPer gets 5k Balthazar faction once a day in no time (just by making training arenas and the zaishen challenge and them few fights) sell one Zaishen key and done, 1..5k to pay 10..50 guests once a day. Yet again, a Xunlai Market would GREATLY help to this, since PvPers would be able to sell while playing for more faction.

Quote:

Aren't sell prices and buy prices usually like... the same thing? If Player A sells Weapon X for 10k to Player B, Player B isn't going to pay a sales tax or anything, he's going to pay 10k. Sell Price = Buy Price.

Exactly, so it won't be hard to him to get similar items to those he sold. It would more like an equal trade than a increase in wealth.
On top of that, if they added the Xunlai Market, I bet they'll let PvP players in there, and people presume that there would be fees in the Xunlai Market (a % of the gold gained selling the item, I bet).

Quote:

So, with this system, everything would be incredibly cheap, and by the way, I've never seen an inscribable weapon go for over 65k, and the highest I've ever seen was 65k for a Pyroclastic Axe or something like that, like, 6 months ago.

I have seem EotN inscribables by over 250k. But that's just a matter of user preferences. I would never pay more than 1k for a Crystaline, but I would pay more than 100k for an inscribbed perfect gold Jitte.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

[...]But I agree, the game needs far more Gold Sinks. If these existed, than this solution would be far more viable to the whole community I think.

Nice to have people that think for a second before starting to type. Thank you. Yup. Inscriptions are not the 'easy way', but the 'user friendly' way. And I'm not against removing rarity. If the price for having inscribables drop in Prophecies and Factions is changing Magma shields drop rate from 0.05(or whatever it is) to 0.001%, it would still be better than keeping the old inconsistent system.
In fact, I'm all for focusing the game to 'buy to use' instead of 'buy to speculate'.
And gold sinks go really great for that!

For example, decreasing the base properties while weapons are not customized and updating customization for all items, including off hands.
Also make customized items have the name of the owner when pinged, and not only in the description (John Doe's Fiery Dragon Sword... blah, blah...)
That way, customization becomes a great option instead something people almost never do with expensive items unless.

For example:

Sword now:
- Not customized: 15-22
- Customized 17-25 (+15%damage, rounded up)
Sword with 'better gold sink' customization:
- Not customized: 12-19
- Customized 17-25 (+25% damage, rounded up)

If you are someone that likes to sell things, you will WANT players to customize items so they have to get more instead of just using what they have.
Greens are easy to get? Make them worthwhile only when customized!
If you are someone that likes to use things, you will want to customize the items!

Althought making them completely useless until customized would be going too far, though... hm...

As you can see, there may be better ways than clinging to an outdated system.
You just have to try and think instead of complain mindlessly like a kid that do not want to sleep in a bed and wants his cot back.
Once the change is done, it's better to see the new scheme of things and dig up your room in it, instead of thinking how things were in the past.

You can't see me · Feb 16, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Maybe I should say "Why does the first person's unluckiness override Yawg's testimony."

Can I get a 'touche!!!'?

Edit: O, btw, +1

It would be different if he was in the majority. Think more please. If you were to go out and survey, your little touche would fall apart like Bill Clinton in front of his wife when she wants something.

Kanyatta · Feb 16, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I was actually talking about the keys. You get more cash in average if you directly sell the keys.

I don't know about you, but I had about a dozen Z Keys, and I was like "alright, sell for 2k ea, 24k easy" right? Well, I spent about probably an hour in GToB, Kamadan, LA... never got a pm.

I finally broke down and used the chest

vixro · Feb 16, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Voted for no change, we don't need to see some rare skins even further lowered in value because of a change.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixro

Voted for no change, we don't need to see some rare skins even further lowered in value because of a change.

Rare skin drop rate can be decreased.

The cahnge is more needed for offhands and normal skins that you can see around easily, like amber staves.

Yawgmoth · Feb 16, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

How about close this thread already? It turns more into insult-fest than any reasonable discussion.
Also, this doesn't deserve to be a Concept of the Now, previous 2 threads were supported by 95%++, this one is highly debatable and close to 50/50 for/against.

+1 before close

Snow Bunny · Feb 16, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

This thread is a crap idea, always has been, and simply advocated by Mithran who will advocate any idea that rears its ugly head in Sardelac.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 16, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

/signed

I hate non-inscribables, they're harder to mod.

IMO inscribables should be worth more since you can mod their inscriptions, whereas a non-inscribable is fixed even if you decide you want to change the inherent.

You can't see me · Feb 16, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

How about close this thread already? It turns more into insult-fest than any reasonable discussion.
Also, this doesn't deserve to be a Concept of the Now, previous 2 threads were supported by 95%++, this one is highly debatable and close to 50/50 for/against.

+1 before close

We're just waiting for someone who can actually present an argument that boils down to more than E-peen to show up. If you're looking for reasonable discussion, create some.

And Bunny, thanks for the spam. Not really needed, but whatever. Grats' on the +1 though.

But I'm afraid Yawg is half right. Most people just come in and flame the idea and those who support it, which, is not needed at all.

I wish mods would come and clean up this thread of all the worthless flames people send it.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

I commit you to stop those useless grudges and actually try to talk about the idea. You don't go anywhere when you just say 'No'. You haven't evend tried a single 'Maybe if...' or 'Only as long as...'.
That attitude is useless and only says that the opposite side is right.

All points to this change fitting the game concept.
- Kills rarity? That's not true! Once inscriptions are added, they can even rework drop rate of rare skins, so they become more rare, since more drops with the skin would be usable. Also more skins to old campaigns should be added, so the rate of each one appearing is spread amongst the new.
- Destroys market? As long as there are at least one rare skin sold for 50..250k, sorry, but that means that it is working as intended. 2000k prices where never meant to be. You cannot demand back what you where never actually given.
- Devalues items? All items devalue, but if the update is not made to the old items, some certain weapons, like the +15(unconditional) would go 'bang' in prices. And some skins would keep value even unchanged. Also the customization could be reworked so items are better while customized or worse while not, so more items are removed from the market and it's created the need for more.

The change already made in armors, the end-game chests, inscriptions in all new items added... you cannot stay in the old campaigns and cling to the old system, denying vigorously the new system like if it would disppear if you do so. Inscriptions are already here, have been proved more versatile and usefull and most people like them than the people that don't care about them or hate them.
GW moves forward. Skill changes are done. Game mehanic changes are made. New systems are developed. All is for the sake of the game and you know it.
Progress cannot and should not be halted.

Snow Bunny · Feb 16, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

And Bunny, thanks for the spam. Not really needed, but whatever. Grats' on the +1 though.

This idea supports the increased devaluing of rare weapons, making the pool of interesting and desirable weapons even smaller than it already is. The fundamental nature of inscriptions reduces the unique nature of weapons.

A weapon like Malice 15^50 Req9 Tyrian Crystalline, the most famous weapon ever, would be rather paltry and insignificant if reduced to inscribable status.

So, I've made fairly valid points.

You and the rest simply ignore them.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

The problem it's that that is not a valid point inside GW as it is right now.

Please state another.

Snow Bunny · Feb 16, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The problem it's that that is not a valid point inside GW as it is right now.

Please state another.

It is a valid point.

Req9 15^50 weapons were 100k+ before inscriptions. I would know, I made lots of money powertrading them.

Now Req9s and 15^50's are as common as the players that farm them.

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

You are blaming inscriptions for something that it's not their fault.
That's not due to inscriptions, that due to increase in farmers and increase in golds thanks to Hard Mod and loot scaling, and almost no one customizing items, thus not removing them from the market.

Anet fixed the economy the way they intended for the majority of players. That's the result of GW becoming the game it was intended to be. Cheaper stuff.
But you must rememver that you don't get 1000k just by farming so easily like it was before. So even if items go down in value, the hit is less since gold is worth more.

There are manay possible alternate ways. Like combinations of the following:
- Making inscriptions drop only in certain circumstantces, but not only from reward chests. Like making each drop having a 10..50% rate of being inscribed, or making inscriptions drop only from bosses and/or chests.
- Making only gold, crafter and collector incribable.
- Adding an inscribe option in weapon NPCs that customize the item upon inscription. That way, by removing items from the market need found items get sold, instead of the already existing items moving around.
- Allow to mod only customized items, so if an item is not customized the better mods it has the better it is.
I bet you can think of any. You just don't want to.

The most important thing is that:
- Game mechanics must be worldwide.
- Inscriptions will not be removed.
I would simply go for raw inscriptions worldwide, but instead of saying "No" I try to come up with other alternate ways.

You will go nowhere if you go by the 'Inscription bad, kill inscriptions' mantra, because they are here and to stay.
But having different systems in game mechanics in different campaigns of the same game is an mistake to be urgently fixed, like they already did with armors.

Kanyatta · Feb 16, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

We're just waiting for someone who can actually present an argument that boils down to more than E-peen to show up. If you're looking for reasonable discussion, create some.

There have been 100s of reasonable answers given as to why this is a bad idea. You just feel you are 100% right and everyone who disagrees is stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

But I'm afraid Yawg is half right. Most people just come in and flame the idea and those who support it, which, is not needed at all.

I wish mods would come and clean up this thread of all the worthless flames people send it.

And with that, you are flaming the people who disagree. Don't act like everyone who supports this idea is a martyr and everyone who disagrees is a bigot, because that's what you really sound like right now.

Kanyatta · Feb 17, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You are blaming inscriptions for something that it's not their fault.

No... no... actually, it has everything to do with inscriptions, because with them, you can make anything 15^50, and you couldn't before. If you got a 14^50, you couldn't change it, thus making 15^50 more expensive, but since you can change the 14^50 to 15^50, it is less valuable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Rare skin drop rate can be decreased.

Yes it can, but that's not a part of the argument, and it hasn't been mentioned till now; so that point is really irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

IMO inscribables should be worth more since you can mod their inscriptions, whereas a non-inscribable is fixed even if you decide you want to change the inherent.

I'm guessing you never took an Economy class in high school, because you would have learned supply + demand there.